Are Germans and Giants the same?

Here are some facts about how the Giant breed came to be. You can decide for yourself if they are different.
Technically, there IS a difference, but practically speaking, most people would not be able to tell the difference now days.

Hi Sandy,

They are very similar and getting moreso every year.

The 1st Germans that were presented at the 1987 ARBA convention were so small, they were very comparable to English in body type, furnishings, etc. They did have the coarser commercial texture, but otherwise you'd have had a hard time telling German and Eng. apart just by looking. So ARBA rejected recognizing them as a separate breed here in the US - the officicial statement was that they were too similar to English.. A lady by the name of Louise Walsh worked with Germans, breeding them with Flemish giants, and other breeds to increase the size. Later, she presented her new "hybrid" German angora, which was much larger than the original imports that were presented were, and those were accepted/ At the time there was a lot of controversy as to what to call them, Candy Haenszel suggestted "Giant" and the name stuck.

This is not to say ALL Germans were small back then. In fact Dr. Terry Reid, who was a "biggie" in ARBA at the time had imported much larger Germans that he felt his were superior to what was presented, and it is one reason why they did not make it on the first presentation, with a lot of ensuing bad blood between him (as a representative of ARBA) & the German club.

In 1984 the first known case of VHD (Viral hemorragic disease, AKA RHA) broke out in a load of German angoras that had been purchased from Germany and were going to China. The first known case in the western hemisphere (Mexico) was in 1988, the first case in the USA in 2000. The USA's FDA forbid any more imported rabbits (as livestock, pets were and are allowed, but under certain restrictions) due to that disease. I'm not sure exactly when importing rabbits as livestock was forbidden, but it was sometime after the 1st presentation and before the outbreak in 2000. The resulting inbred stock that was here took on some undesirable traits, mostly they were reluctant breeders, and also the size had continued to stay very small. Until 2004.

At that time, a lady from Canada imported some stock from Germany I'm not sure if it was illegal to bring them into Canada, but it was still against the rules here, IF they are not pets. If you import them as livestock, in other words. If they come from a country that has had an incident of RHD (most European countries have) , they'll require health certificates and so on. She brought them on into the US somehow, charming the border patrols, I guess. The new stock was much larger than the previous ones had been. And they were better breeders. Those were sold all over the US as more Germans became available. Same person imported more in 2006, including black angora(s) from Germany.

While all this was going on, Giant breeders were having a hard time making their 9.5 lb (bucks) or 10 lb (does) weight requirement, so they started using the new German imports to bring up the size. Mostly they just bred them in, didn't show them as Giants (which they could have done, BTW - A non-ARBA rabbit may be shown and win at ARBA events, but since they cannot be registered, they cannot accumulate "legs" toward a championship)

However, out in California (and I guess WA & OR, though I would not swear to it), some people started to show pure Germans as Giants. The German club loves to crow about this saying they win all the time. Which is true. BUT they neglect to mention that it is because usually there are few or zero Giants entered out west, which was the case at last year's nationals in San Diego. A lady with 2 pure German won out of a field of 10(including hers). only 5 exhibitors. Compare to 51 French and over 100 Eng. Almost no one out west keeps Giants, and they quality isn't high on the ones that are there.

So my answer is: technically they are not identical. However having them side by side, almost no one can tell the difference now days except perhaps the lady who imported them in '04 and '06 just because she knows her own lines. As for Dr. Reid, he died a few years ago.

It all depends upon what you like and want to do with them. If you want championships, then go with a Giant who has a full pedigree so you can register him/her to win. (In order to be registered with ARBA, the German that was bred in has to drop off the 3 generation pedigree - or be 92+% Giant) If quantity of fiber is more important than quality of fiber, then you could get either a German, or a Giant with German bred in. They'll be so similar I bet you cannot tell the diff, and frankly I believe Germans have been overbred now days so you should not have to give any extra $$ at all for one, but of course that is your choice. When the ARBA show was in Indianapolis in 2005, I thought Giants looked pretty sorry next to my pure Germans. However, just 4 years later, at Louisville, the Giants had fully caught up to the Germans in quality, IMO, in both coat density, size and the texture of coat was the same. (That entry was very small too, but not as small as they are out west).

If you want the softest, silkiest of all fibers, though, you'll have to go with Eng. or Satin. If you like the spikey furry look to your garments, then French is for you.

Only you know what you like. Hope this helps. Good luck!

(If you want to pluck, you'll have to go with Eng. Satin, or French, and many top winning English don't molt any more so you couldn't get one of them either. But that is another issue.)

Donna

BTW, if you speak to someone from the German club, you might hear these facts presented differently. My info comes from someone who shows heavily and has for years, including from 1987 on.

She was there when they were presented the first time and also when they were accepted. She was also the secretary and knew the exact number of Giants entered at San Diego last year. She is not in Germans or Giants, has no stake in the game, nothing to gain -- so I tend to believe her version.)