Day 18

Well, the first signs of real trouble occured today. One brown baby has swollen so much with a gassy stomach he looks deformed. Another baby is very skinny and probably on his way out. Of the 2 others that seem healthy, one has been bloated, but seems better from time to time.

I am getting conflicting advice about this problem. A veterinary tech from the Spinplus list suggested a drop or 2 of the antibiotic, Albon, to help prevent "bad" bacteria. But the Albon I have here is old and I was afraid to use it. So I just trusted nature. I did allow them to run loose for a while, hoping it helped the gassy stomach problem, and for one it seemed to. But the big brown one is still horribly bloated.

The babies are bottle feeding now. This is much easier and much faster for me, really reducing the amount of time I spend taking care of them. Several have started to nibble on hay and parsley. I have given them pellets, but they won't eat any. I have also given them night feces as I can find it from healthy rabbits. However, my rabbits usually clean this up immediately and it is hard to find. I am hoping it helps to establish the proper bacteria in the gut, and also will help the digestion of the kits.

I'm really afraid I'll lose the brown one now. the skinny one is probably on his way out.

While they were running loose in the living room, one of the babies decided to go hide. She/he got behind the couch and it took me forever to get her back. Every time I scooted the sofa a little she ran and got underneath it again. But overall, I feel the exercise helped.

Here are some responses from the list

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The problem with doing a lot with probios is that many of the strains are not at all native to the rabbit gut at any time in their lives. The competitive inhibition of clostridial bacteria is often insignificant. Giving excessive probios to a rabbit at a very young age can lead to sustained dysbiosis, causing more problems than it cures.

It makes more sense to moderate the gut flora as it becomes established with the use of a gentle broad-spectrum sulfa antibiotic like sulfadimethoxine; that way things remain pretty much in balance while still developing more or less normally instead of overloading the gut with non-native bacteria.

Giving them a wide variety of high-ish fiber materials like varied hays and fibrous greens to nibble will help them get the 'habit' of solid foods and help the gut flora balance itself.

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Exercise is a GOOD thing to get those guts moving! Just block off the
couch!

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How about baby gas drops (simethicone)? I have read where people got
good results adding that to the formula.

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Could you also explain in a bit more detail about the use of a "gentle broad-spectrum sulfa antibiotic like sulfadimethoxine", and how it is beneficial? In what circumstances would you use this drug, and could this, or should this be used routinely on younger rabbits that are developing their flora, or should it be used more so in the instance as this subject thread has been discussing where things are non routine?

Could you go into more detail about this drug and how it should be administered and dosages that would be recommended?

I would relish more specific information on this subject so that I can know what to do if I ever have to deal with these types of problems.

Thanks very much for sharing Pam.

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****Terry, I'll do my best. Much of what I have in handrearing is empirical
(experiential) but some is not, so I'll answer what I can. :) Note: I AM
NOT A VETERINARIAN and don't pretend to be. I'm a veterinary technician
officially but that actually has little to do with my rabbit habits and far
more to do with how well I understand what I do--and how I pay the feed
bill!

*****What books can you suggest for one to obtain information, and do more
reading, specifically on the digestive system of the rabbit that goes into
much more detail, and especially that names specific substances that are in
the rabbits body that carry out all of the different functions?
****

I highly recommend any or all of these books for your needs (and anyone who
wants anywhere from overview to in-depth):
The Nutrition of the Domestic Rabbit, deBlas & Wiseman (A VERY detailed look
at rabbit nutrition--expensive and worth every cent)
Rabbit Nutrition, Peter Cheeke
Rabbit Production, 8th ed.
Biology of the Laboratory Rabbit, eds 1 and 2
Biology & Medicine of Rabbits and Rodents, Harkness & Wagner
Animal Nutrition (Academic Press, forget the authors sorry)
World Rabbit Science Association membership with WRSA journal

******Could you also explain in a bit more detail about the use of a "gentle
broad-spectrum sulfa antibiotic like sulfadimethoxine", and how it is
beneficial? In what circumstances would you use this drug, and could this,
or should this be used routinely on younger rabbits that are developing
their flora, or should it be used more so in the instance as this subject
thread has been discussing where things are non routine?
*******

I don't often use or recommend the use of any drug on a 'routine' basis; the
need to do so often leads not only to resistance but slacking off in
husbandry practices even further than was seen when the condition first
showed up.
I use the Albon with the bottle kits on a strictly limited basis to help
ease the transition from milk to solid foods. Here's the theory, untested
and unresearched, LOL.... As the gut flora changes and the pH of the
stomach decreases, the kits are very susceptible to broad swings in the gut
flora caused by even slight variations in what was a very reliably uniform
diet. Thus, using a broad-spectrum antibiotic (which is also a potent
coccidiostat) with a large safety margin makes some sense--it isn't
tremendously antibacterial in the gut but does have an effect on both gram
positive and gram negative bacteria, allowing them to find a more even
balance and vary less drastically as new species come in and are
established.

That's the theory. All I know is that adding the Albon to the milk extends
formula viability when in a bottle or dish, and that while on Albon I had
far fewer episodes of bloat or gassiness with the kits on it. Take it as
what it's worth without testing (not a lot). :)

*****Could you go into more detail about this drug and how it should be
administered and dosages that would be recommended?
****

Sulfadimethoxine is used as a coccidiostat rather than as a generalized
antibiotic according to its labelling. The dosage is listed on the label
for the 5% suspension for dogs and cats, and the dose is the same for
rabbits with a variance. Duration for intestinal coccidiosis control is as
labeled, but for liver coccidiosis, two full weeks are required to
completely remove the problem. PLEASE NOTE: Without the good husbandry
which keeps rabbits and their fecal material apart, this drug or any other
is worthless. The oocysts become infective in 24-48 hours' time and if
ingested, will restart the infectious cycle once again.
I would relish more specific information on this subject so that I can know
what to do if I ever have to deal with these types of problems.

Hope that helps... :)

BTW...a clean and healthy rabbit being fed a good diet produces the best and
most fiber. :) :) There, even on topic!
PA

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